[spidey]

Idézet: szabinar - Dátum: 2007. júl. 26., csütörtök - 16:10

Well, i am afraid u gonna have to sacrifice 7 years of ur life if u want to learn english, no shortcuts sry

7 years? Man, you're not a good learner, are you?  :Ð

About the above sentence, yeah, it's more, well, emphasized, more direct without "do". What's more, you can leave out "you" as well and you're really there. (And, like, look, who's talking?)

Szerkesztette: spidey 2007. 08. 07. 21:00 -kor

[Dextrose]

Fél-off: Az helyes ugy hogy My Connect? Azaz szokatlan egy angol anyanyelvûnek?

Enyém kapcsolok 

[Wyco]

My connections inkább ha azt szeretnéd h én kapcsolataim. A My Connect az csak akkor értelmes ha a Connect pl egy termék és valahogy azt akarod hangsulyozni hogy az a tied, vagy vmi marketinganyagba megy. (de akkor se nagyon)

[Dextrose]

Idézet: Wyco - Dátum: 2007. aug. 15., szerda - 11:43

My connections inkább ha azt szeretnéd h én kapcsolataim. A My Connect az csak akkor értelmes ha a Connect pl egy termék és valahogy azt akarod hangsulyozni hogy az a tied, vagy vmi marketinganyagba megy. (de akkor se nagyon)

Then the webpage will be changed.

Szerkesztette: Dextrose 2007. 08. 15. 11:21 -kor

[spidey]

Idézet: Dextrose - Dátum: 2007. aug. 15., szerda - 11:35

Fél-off: Az helyes ugy hogy My Connect?

English please. Nah, not correct.

[Dextrose]

Idézet: spidey - Dátum: 2007. aug. 15., szerda - 19:25

English please. Nah, not correct.

OK, I do everything what I can What do you think, if we talk a lot in this topic (approximately throghout 2 years), every day, at least 1 hour, will we speak well after this 2 years?

Szerkesztette: Dextrose 2007. 08. 15. 22:35 -kor

[Wyco]

Well you are not here an hour every day, at least you dont seem so And no it doesnt help, because you usually dont get to know why something is incorrect and in what situations you avoid using the incorrect structures. If you want to learn English and you are not the type who can do it alone [which by the way i think is not that easy without the prior knowledge of other languages] then you should take a course.
This topic is mostly for having fun or asking very special questions about topics that you dont generally encounter too much elsewhere.

Szerkesztette: Wyco 2007. 08. 15. 23:02 -kor

[Dextrose]

Idézet: Wyco - Dátum: 2007. aug. 16., csütörtök - 0:01

Well you are not here an hour every day, at least you dont seem so And no it doesnt help, because you usually dont get to know why something is incorrect and in what situations you avoid using the incorrect structures. If you want to learn English and you are not the type who can do it alone [which by the way i think is not that easy without the prior knowledge of other languages] then you should take a course.
This topic is mostly for having fun or asking very special questions about topics that you dont generally encounter too much elsewhere.

I know, but if you are in English or in other  environment, you must speak that language. You learn as a baby...he must speak to phrase him/herself and understand others.

[Wyco]

Idézet: Dextrose - Dátum: 2007. aug. 16., csütörtök - 0:25

I know, but if you are in English or in other  environment, you must speak that language. You learn as a baby...he must speak to phrase him/herself and understand others.

I dont quite underdstand you point, but babies dont learn on thier own, as there is a mom or dad or whoever that helps. By learning alone I meant what i am doing right now with Spanish: i bought a coursebook and a workbook and study.

Besides, there is an even bigger difference between learning a language online or IRL. I dont know who made it so I cant reference but there was a pretty interesting study examining why the different nationalities are having problems learning the local language, once they work in a country like Germany, France etc [I mostly refer to the Turkish people]. Anyway, it turned out that since their communities only rely on their own selves, including the language learning part, they never get to know more than pre-memorized bunch of words that make up gramatically and pronouciationwise incorrect sentences, however the second generation of people study in local schools and meet local kids, therefore they have the chance to learn the language.
Same thing about learning on a forum like this one, you wont be able to.

[obersmith]

Idézet: szabinar - Dátum: 2007. júl. 26., csütörtök - 16:10

Well, i am afraid u gonna have to sacrifice 7 years of ur life if u want to learn english, no shortcuts sry

thats just not true.

i can tell you, even tho i studied english for like 11 years (primary school, highschool, accredited school), the most english knowledge for me came from watching subtitled movies, and, actually, playing mmorpg games over the internet. i was forced to type/speak in english because ppl from all over the world were all communicating in english. so, after like 1 year of playing, i can tell that i speak fluent english. dont ask me about the grammar tho. if you would put an english grammar test in front of me to do it, id probably make an F minus out of it, but my foreign friends were astounded about how well i can write and speak in english (with only a SLIGHT accent, other than that i speak very good american english)


so, afterall, those games maybe worth a damn, no matter what your parents say about it xD

[szabinar]

guys i fukin hate to say this but please try to read a post before you reply
ty

[szabinar]

Idézet: obersmith - Dátum: 2007. aug. 16., csütörtök - 11:20

..after like 1 year of playing, i can tell that i speak fluent english. ...

thats plain bullshit OR you overestimate your knowledge big time man
no offense

edit: or U R a genius (just like me)

Szerkesztette: szabinar 2007. 08. 16. 12:23 -kor

[obersmith]

Idézet: szabinar - Dátum: 2007. aug. 16., csütörtök - 13:18

thats plain bullshit OR you overestimate your knowledge big time man
no offense

edit: or U R a genius (just like me)

for a year ive been talking to english ppl with voice-over-net applications. but you should ask that american girl i was meeting with the other weekend how fluent i was.


you seem to be full of prejudices.

[dr zaius]

Idézet: Dextrose - Dátum: 2007. aug. 15., szerda - 23:25

I know, but if you are in English or in other  environment, you must speak that language. You learn as a baby...he must speak to phrase him/herself and understand others.

Babies do not learn but acquire their native language. One should make a difference here... language acquisition and language learning shouldn't be mixed. When you are happen to spend your precious time in an English-speaking country then you do acquire the foreign language. But being in a classroom environment means that you do learn the target language.

As for the 'how much time do I need to learn proper English'-debate, there are certain factors that should be taken into consideration. For instance individual differences (IDs) such as foreign language aptitude, different sort of motivations, cognitive style, learning strategies and all take significant part in it. So we can say that it depends on the individual.

The scientific field that deals with these questions is called Applied Linguistics... as a sub-field, we can mention aptitude, IDs, TEFL (Teaching English as a Foreing Language).

[dr zaius]

Idézet: Dextrose - Dátum: 2007. aug. 15., szerda - 22:33

OK, I do everything what I can What do you think, if we talk a lot in this topic (approximately throghout 2 years), every day, at least 1 hour, will we speak well after this 2 years?

Sorry mate, but in this topic you don't talk, but read and write. The four language skills are:

SPEAKING

WRITING

READING (reading comprehension)

LISTENING.

As a rule, you can improve...
writing through reading,
speaking through listening, though there are certain overlaps.

Krashen and his team proved that only practicing writing itself doesn't improve one's writing style.
Reading (especially FVR - free voluntary reading) is considered to be the most effective way to improve the following deals:
- vocab
- grammar
- reading comprehension
- writing style
- pronunciation.

According to Krashen (look for his input theory), the appropriate input should be i+1, where i is one's current level of knowledge.

Read, matey! On the long run that would be the best and the easiest way...

[dr zaius]

Idézet: Wyco - Dátum: 2007. aug. 16., csütörtök - 10:12

Besides, there is an even bigger difference between learning a language online or IRL.

Good point. The on-line variation of English is very peculiar with distinguishing vocab items (lot of abbreviations) and grammar. Sociolinguists still argue about it: is internet English a natural variation at all?

[dr zaius]

Idézet: szabinar - Dátum: 2007. júl. 26., csütörtök - 15:10

Well, i am afraid u gonna have to sacrifice 7 years of ur life if u want to learn english, no shortcuts sry

It is only your personal experience as a language learner. In AL there is no formula to calculate it... (IDs!)

[Dextrose]

Idézet: Wyco - Dátum: 2007. aug. 16., csütörtök - 11:12

I dont quite underdstand you point, but babies dont learn on thier own, as there is a mom or dad or whoever that helps. By learning alone I meant what i am doing right now with Spanish: i bought a coursebook and a workbook and study.

Besides, there is an even bigger difference between learning a language online or IRL. I dont know who made it so I cant reference but there was a pretty interesting study examining why the different nationalities are having problems learning the local language, once they work in a country like Germany, France etc [I mostly refer to the Turkish people]. Anyway, it turned out that since their communities only rely on their own selves, including the language learning part, they never get to know more than pre-memorized bunch of words that make up gramatically and pronouciationwise incorrect sentences, however the second generation of people study in local schools and meet local kids, therefore they have the chance to learn the language.
Same thing about learning on a forum like this one, you wont be able to.

I can't imagine about myself to sit above the book. I am not able to do this. I have no so much energy to learn always. it makes me tired and very dull. I see one solution for me: to be abroad.

Being one year abroad,  equals four years of active learning at home. This is my view.

[Dextrose]

Idézet: dr zaius - Dátum: 2007. aug. 16., csütörtök - 14:43

Babies do not learn but acquire their native language. One should make a difference here... language acquisition and language learning shouldn't be mixed. When you are happen to spend your precious time in an English-speaking country then you do acquire the foreign language. But being in a classroom environment means that you do learn the target language.

As for the 'how much time do I need to learn proper English'-debate, there are certain factors that should be taken into consideration. For instance individual differences (IDs) such as foreign language aptitude, different sort of motivations, cognitive style, learning strategies and all take significant part in it. So we can say that it depends on the individual.

The scientific field that deals with these questions is called Applied Linguistics... as a sub-field, we can mention aptitude, IDs, TEFL (Teaching English as a Foreing Language).

Speaking fluently alien language means big decision near learning. I am not this type. I will never speak properly unless I am abroad at least one year. There are no so efficient educational method than the other environment.

[Wyco]

Idézet: Dextrose - Dátum: 2007. aug. 16., csütörtök - 22:54

Speaking fluently alien language means big decision near learning. I am not this type. I will never speak properly unless I am abroad at least one year. There are no so efficient educational method than the other environment.

That is true, but chatting online with people wont substitute this.